Q13: why Ives matters to Moray, and whether a Lorentz ether adds any new force

Asked by the owner 2026-10-07 during the Ives document update; answered in that update (altsci-qe.js run wf_12bda5fc-932) from the 31 Ives papers, the deep reads and Ruderfer's Appendix VI in Moray, The Sea of Energy, 5th ed., pp. 271-275. No separate web search. The full answer, with sources and qualifications, is primer.md section 4.10 and the arbiter's section on the owner's questions; this note records it as a follow-up so the site shows it.

Summary: - No Ives paper mentions Moray. The bridge is M. Ruderfer, "Neutrino Structure of the Ether" (Lett. Nuovo Cimento 13:1, 1975), reprinted as Appendix VI of Sea of Energy, 5th ed. Ruderfer uses Ives to argue a Lorentz ether is "admissible", then fills it with a neutrino sea of energy and a Le Sage push gravity. The energy step is Ruderfer's, not Ives's. - The reading in the question ("no new forces, only a different explanation") is right for Ives's core theory and is Ives's own position: Robertson found it "completely equivalent in substance to the special theory of relativity"; Ives (1939): "no non-Euclidean geometry, nor new law of gravitation"; (1948) "the force equations are actually implicit in the general relativity solution". - Correction to the orchestrator's earlier answer in conversation (2026-10-07): the orchestrator said Ives's gravitation theory was a different force law that might give different numbers, untested beyond Mercury. The full 1939 and 1948 papers show it derives the Schwarzschild metric of general relativity and so gives GR's single-mass numbers (Mercury 43 arcsec per century, light bending 1.75 arcsec, gravitational red shift). The review's earlier "chosen to reach 43" inference is withdrawn. - Qualifications: Lorentz's picture must assume every binding force is Lorentz-covariant (tested by Hughes-Drever experiments); "Lorentz/Einstein" must include Einstein's gravity; Ruderfer's "any Lorentz-ether theory is necessarily equivalent to GR" is not a theorem (Nordstrom's scalar theory bends no light); Ives's separate claims (the photon will be abandoned) are not rewritings, and that one failed. - Tension for the Moray review: an ether invisible enough to match relativity offers no gradient to tap; a neutrino sea at rest in one frame could be detected (Preikschat's rotor null, 2.0 +/- 5.2 cm/s).